Revolutionary says:
If I may politely ask, why the hell did you close that thread? That Clarification wasn’t just going to be on my words. I was going to turn it to philosophy, next.
And on that vein, one that is still in-progress (and who knows, may someday take its place alongside Lincoln/Douglas, and others):
Squall/PSX-Dude
Saturday afternoon
February 7, 2004
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Greetings.
You says:
hi
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Waves for a moment.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Do you hold yourself to be a politically astute individual?
You says:
i hate politics
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Then the study of Power.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Do you ever study it?
You says:
nope
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Aha. Then I suppose you don’t realize that totalitarianists in America are often hypocrites, right?
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Or do you?
You says:
i didn’t think the government of america was open to totalitarianists
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Ah, but personal life is.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Twilight Zone had an episode about it, one of those Closed Communities.
You says:
i didn’t know those still existed
Disgusted at ***holes says:
They do.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
“Doing what is right according to what the Community NEEDS.”
You says:
since they still have to follow local, state, and federal laws
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Yada.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Not if they keep everything quiet.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
As TZ actually showed me, you can break a slew of laws if people close ranks.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Such as murder.
You says:
that’s a tv show
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Killing off those who don’t contribute to the vitality of the community.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Yes, but ideas never die.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Smiles
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Warnings are also ideas.
You says:
does google news search
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Nods, as he does so.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Apply ideas to real life, and you get to see a lot of disgusting habits.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Ever notice that?
You says:
no
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Well, now you can.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
For instance, people have the idea, all the way from high school now, to exclude those they don’t like, if a “vote” is taken to deprive them of their rights.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Assuming rights exist, anyway.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Funny thing has been that those who DON’T do this, and act all noble about allowing those they roll their eyes at and want to hit, half the time, to stay…
Disgusted at ***holes says:
usually pay for it in the end.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Be savage or be dead, and all.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
The last time before the present-day that world politics was like this was the 1930s.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Point being?
Disgusted at ***holes says:
That if you believe in freedom, you often have to fight for it.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Stir up resentment against the powers that be.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
To cause a general overthrow of the system that is, and create a new one based on superior notions.
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Understand?
You says:
you broke my gaim
Disgusted at ***holes says:
Aha. My humble apologies, it was unintended.
Disgusted at *holes says:
Merely wished for…an exchange of ideas.
Revolutionary says:
And just now, I’m curious as to what a “gaim” is.
You says:
the community has the fight to judge what it wants in the community. for example if the community as a large doesn’t want a certain piece of art , it is their right, under law, to get rid of the offending piece of art in the community.
You says:
<A HREF=“http://gaim.sf.net”>gaim</A>
Revolutionary says:
And if the community is the entirety of the world?
Revolutionary says:
A world community, as it were?
Revolutionary says:
Would they have the right to eliminate those things they find unacceptable?
Revolutionary says:
Or more to the point, and far more civilized a term, the “undesirables” in the community?
You says:
no
You says:
if a religious community doesn’t want a painting of jesus burning on the cross, they have the right to petition the removal of it
You says:
it’s a moral thing
Revolutionary says:
Then you’re claiming the universal form of government should be different than the “particular,” local one?
You says:
what?
Revolutionary says:
…you said “no.”
Revolutionary says:
You don’t believe a universal community…
Revolutionary says:
and literally, it’s governing body…
Revolutionary says:
should have the right to remove, by whatever means necessary, that which they do not like the presense of, in their World Community?
Revolutionary says:
Or do you?
You says:
no
You says:
morals don’t necessarily work for everyone
You says:
but a community they do
Revolutionary says:
And if a community holds members who DISagree?
Revolutionary says:
What is to say that they’re any less a member than another?
Revolutionary says:
Status?
You says:
majority rules, like always in democracy
Revolutionary says:
So if a majority vote were taken in that community to bring back what was previously removed, it would be returned?
You says:
and as usual, if you don’t like it you can leave the community
You says:
yes
Revolutionary says:
But if it’s the world, how can you leave?
You says:
it isn’t the world
You says:
it’s a community in the world
Revolutionary says:
Why should the world have different moral beliefs than an individual community?
Revolutionary says:
Why not apply the little to the large?
Revolutionary says:
Is there something wrong with the little?
You says:
a small community shouldn’t force it’s beliefs on the large
You says:
if the large wants it, then sure, go right ahead, make it large
You says:
but the community is where it starts
Revolutionary says:
But what if the small community’s methods were taken up by the larger community?
Revolutionary says:
Would that be bad?
Revolutionary says:
Why shouldn’t someone who’s a member of the Larger Community have the right to live wherever he wishes in that Large World?
You says:
well the us government makes laws that the states don’t always like
Revolutionary says:
If it’s his right to buy property and all, and so long as he obeys the rules.
You says:
communities can’t get rid of people, just the morals and safety of the community
Revolutionary says:
Ah.
Revolutionary says:
But online communities can.
Revolutionary says:
“Eliminate”
You says:
i knew you were going to do that
Revolutionary says:
Because you’re intelligent, obviously.
Revolutionary says:
You can anticipate.
Revolutionary says:
And btw, that is exactly what the physical community in the TZ tale did.
You says:
the community is public and owned by the public, but if it were owned by a private individual, they would be subject to the private individuals wishes, but still bound by a larger law
Revolutionary says:
Then if someone owned the entire world, that One would have the right to do whatever was wished?
You says:
the rules set by in the forum is warning, warning, then ban, i didn’t just ban him for no reason. he had been warned many times before for his flagrant postings
You says:
yes squall, but my forum is different, it’s sort of a representative democracy, i can’t just abuse my power as i want
You says:
i can’t and won’t just ban you for disagreeing with me, but if you cross certain lines on issues that are harmful to the world, i have the right to warn, then if you don’t listen, ban
Revolutionary says:
Issues harmful.
Revolutionary says:
Who is to determine the lines, and crossing them. You?
Revolutionary says:
Me?
Revolutionary says:
Who has the right, the Owner?
You says:
the owner, but i’m not a world, i’m like a community
Revolutionary says:
By your logic, you have no defense against the Idea of God having the authority to do anything, anytime.
You says:
i own the community
You says:
i’ve set guidlines down for the community
You says:
it’s my private property
Revolutionary says:
Tell me,
You says:
if you don’t follow my rules you will be subject to it’s disiplines
Revolutionary says:
how is this different than the position monotheists have ascribed to God?
You says:
God has no voice
You says:
he can’t tell people what to do
Revolutionary says:
To those deaf, no.
Revolutionary says:
You can tell them what to do.
Revolutionary says:
He does, daily, actually.
You says:
people think he does, it’s open to their interpretations
Revolutionary says:
Actually, many have seen Him.
Revolutionary says:
But that’s besides the point.
Revolutionary says:
Why does He allow people to cross many lines, and not annihilate them?
You says:
they believe they have seen him, it could just be a fluke of the mind
You says:
because god is too laxy
You says:
lazy
Revolutionary says:
Indeed. And there are a thousand medical transcripts to prove these flukes.
Revolutionary says:
The height of all arrogance there, my friend.
You says:
he isn’t active
Revolutionary says:
Or perhaps you are blind and deaf to it.
Revolutionary says:
The blind never seen color other than black.
Revolutionary says:
Is there color other than black?
Revolutionary says:
see
Revolutionary says:
If there is, is it not a flaw in them, and not with the universe?
Revolutionary says:
And/or, God.
You says:
God is like the great clockmaker, setting the clock and letting it go on it’s own
Revolutionary says:
But what of when someone with a hammer who despises Him and wants to own the shop damages the clock in His despite?
Revolutionary says:
to use Tolkien’s words
Revolutionary says:
Would He not FIX it, by careful, surgical action?
You says:
the clock doesn’t really exist, there is no way to damage it
Revolutionary says:
If the clock doesn’t exist, neither do we.
Revolutionary says:
But we do.
You says:
god created the universe, the universe created man
You says:
it’s because of the clock that we exist
Revolutionary says:
Aha. You believe in the scientifically false hypothesis of evolution.
You says:
but the clock isn’t reliant on our existence
Revolutionary says:
So if the universe is the source for us, and gave us no guidelines, since when do we have rights?
Revolutionary says:
Instead of Might making Right?
You says:
well conservation of matter states that matter cannot be created or destroyed, i don’t think that matter has been created any time after the creation of the universe, so it’s not possible that people just… appeared
Revolutionary says:
Indeed. Which leaves us with the fact of the cell.
You says:
majorities make rights
You says:
people accept them
Revolutionary says:
More advanced than a 747.
Revolutionary says:
Not always, friend.
You says:
yes, they have the right to protest
You says:
but still, majority rules
Revolutionary says:
Sometimes minorities make rights that machine-induced power allows them to.
Revolutionary says:
Orwell wrote a STUNNING novel on that notion.
Revolutionary says:
As did Huxley.
You says:
novel, works of fiction
Revolutionary says:
Nazi Germany, historical fact.
Revolutionary says:
By rights, they should’ve won the Second World War, if not for bad strategic decisions.
Revolutionary says:
Attack like a wolf, not like an elephant.
Revolutionary says:
China, present historical reality.
Revolutionary says:
Protestors openly crushed.
You says:
the world didn’t want hitler’s regime to win, and fought against it
Revolutionary says:
All others cowaring in fear.
You says:
cooler heads prevail
Revolutionary says:
But he should’ve won.
You says:
why?
Revolutionary says:
Because Germany had the world at its feet, August 1940.
You says:
yes, but people still fought against him
Revolutionary says:
They great pivot point of the war came that month.
You says:
china sucks
Revolutionary says:
But they would’ve lost, if not for his attack against the S.Union, and his declaring war on America before possessing nuclear weapons.
You says:
that’s why i don’t live in china
Revolutionary says:
You wouldn’t be allowed to leave, if you did.
Revolutionary says:
Their Great Community, remember?
You says:
no
Revolutionary says:
Kept in check by military power.
Revolutionary says:
“Submit or die.”
You says:
i don’t think the people really want that form of government, but they don’t know how to fight against it and so they just accept it
Revolutionary says:
Indeed.
Revolutionary says:
Accept it.
You says:
why does the US have an embargo on cuba?
Revolutionary says:
The minority rules, there.
Revolutionary says:
Because of its instigation in 1962.
Revolutionary says:
By President John F. Kennedy.
You says:
what does that exactly mean?
Revolutionary says:
Simple. We don’t deal with communist nations in the Western Hemisphere.
You says:
but we do in other hemispheres?
You says:
kinda silly…
Revolutionary says:
Sorrow for that, hate disconnection.
Revolutionary says:
The West being different for us harkens back to the Monroe Doctrine.
Revolutionary says:
Where we told the other powers that we would not tolerate their interference in the Americas.
Revolutionary says:
At least, the regions they did not already control.
Revolutionary says:
Truman established the iciness against regime that round up resisters in concentration camps in Siberia, or elsewhere.
Revolutionary says:
The Gobi Desert, these days, instead.
Revolutionary says:
regimes
Revolutionary says:
Monroe+Truman=Communstic Cuba Embargo
Revolutionary says:
*istic
The chess term is “post-mortem”: discussion and study of a game, afterwards. This game has merely taken a recess, however, with continuation to be reported whenever available. Hopefully I’m not crossing any Lines, by bringing up politics and philosophy. Thanks for your time and interest.
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