Mac or not Mac?

All right you hounds, let it all out. Give the reasons you do or don’t think Macs are good for you, or for a specific use. This is an opinion thread, so respect the opinions of others. Flame and I will invite the Party up from RomsHand.

They’re too expensive, not many programs (everything is for windows, which sucks), little chance for an upgrade, and the fact that they don’t even make their own programs and rip off open source projects and don’t contribute to the source of those projects they rip off (OSX is BSD based and Safari is ripped off from Konquerer to name a few)

OS X is based on BSD. This is true. But OS X is not BSD; even Darwin is very different from BSD (within the confines of still being UNIX, of course). Darwin and BSD are both constantly changing, and often not in the same direction. And then on top of Darwin there is the rest of OS X, which Apple is always changing and adding to. If you look at OS X as just Darwin, it’s still got changes from BSD that make it a different beast entirely. Even if you just look at OS X as Aqua sitting on top of BSD, it’s obviously something that’s been added. Put these two ways of looking at OS X together to get the actual state of things and it’s pretty clear that Apple modified OS X enough to call it Apple’s own.

Other products aren’t so different from the way they were when Apple got them. Other products like iTunes. iTunes is still essentially the application Apple purchased with a different organization and look. Safari also hasn’t changed too much.
Some Apple products change in form; some do not. Oh well.

Almost every important commercial app for Windows is also for Mac. Macs can upgrade just fine, if you can find the parts; I would ask the iBox guy about that, as it’s not like he’s got much Mac-building to do these days.

ok, where can i go to buy parts to build my own macintosh computer?

That’s the beauty (and problem) of Apple’s business plan.

On the one hand, they make more money on selling the software AND hardware.

On the other hand, you can’t get it for cheaper.

BUT, I read what someone said a while ago, and it made a lot of sense to me:

When you’re buying a Mac from Apple, you’re not just buying the hardware, you’re paying for all the software you can put on it for free. Apple offers iTunes, Safari, X11, all of these things for FREE. When you pay the extra money for the system, you essentially pay the money for these items down, so that you CAN get them for free, also so that the coders are paid.

Also, regarding ripping off open-source products… On the contrary:

  1. Apple can’t “rip off” open source projects. Open source projects are open source. They can be used and bundled like Apple does.
  2. Darwin is an open source project in and of itself, funded and supported by Apple. Yes, it’s based on BSD, but it is not BSD. It’s merely a variant.
  3. As for Safari specifically… Safari raises some questions… Yes, it is based on the KHTML core (instead of Gecko, which is now leaner and meaner. I’d take Chimera/Firebird over Safari any day, for several reasons, including the fact that Safari is less standards compliant). Apple does contribute tot he KHTML project as well. So that in and of itself is not a problem. My question, however, surrounds the GPL and KHTML. IF KHTML is licensed under the GPL, doesn’t Safari’s source code HAVE to be open (as it’s a derivative work that is freely distributed)?

(EDIT: KHTML is under the LGPL apparently. Therefore Safari CAN use the code without releasing its own code. Gecko, however, cannot take KHTML code…)

In any case, as far as I’m concerned, though some people are starting to say that Linux ont he desktop is taking from Mac on the Desktop and will surpass it in users, I see that they are merely both taking from Windows (as Mac users are extremely devoted and wouldn’t switch to Linux over their dead bodies). In any case, my opinion is that OS X is what Linux cannot and will not be. Though linux can be used on the desktop, OS X, in my opinion, is the only real serious contender that presents a UNIX desktop. Sure it lacks programs, but it has some programs Linux will never see, namely Adobe and MS Office (though I don’t see the latter lasting too much longer on the Mac). OpenOffice is nice, but not a complete substitute. And GIMP is a joke compared to Photoshop, even now.

Well, the iBox dude was getting parts from licensed Apple repair places, since they have extra parts sitting around in case someone needs them replaced. I assume the procedure is something like:
You: “Hey, I need X part.”
Them: “Here, have X part. Hey, you aren’t building computers, are you? Because last time we sold to this one guy who was going to make computers Apple threatened to ‘shove red-hot iron rods down our throats,’ and we’d rather not have that happen.”
You: “Uh… no, of course not. I also need Y part and any other parts necessary for a computer.”
Them: “Sure thing.”
You: "Now it’s off to Toys ‘R’ Us to build me a case.

Or you just tell them you’re making exactly one computer and they hand over the stuff. I’ve never tried it.

But I have to go to apple for the parts, so they can charge me whatever they feel is the right price? That’s a downfall right there, you can’t shop around for the best price, it’s whatever apple wants it to be.

That’s true. But unless the iBox guy was trying to lose money, the authorized repair places (which technically aren’t Apple, they just get parts from Apple) sell the replacement parts at such a price that collecting all the parts necessary for a computer costs less than a brand spanking new Mac.

I see. But that is nothing new, and certainly nothing unique to Apple.

What do you mean?

No but really KBV, what makes you like Apple Macs so much? I mean, why would you choose a Mac over a Windoze/Linux powered PC? What are the benefits? Tell me.

(By the way, sorry the other thread got out hand. But I didn’t know it was all that serious.)

He bought an Apple product in the past. If you were not aware, anyone who remotely ends up liking a Mac is ALWAYS fiercely loyal to the brand.

And while I myself do not use a Mac, I will admit that I am becoming more and more pro-mac (perhaps it is the UNIX induced haze (thanks Linux) and Apple’s BSD heritage now)

(EDIT: Everyone knows that BogoMIPS are the REAL measure of CPU processing speed ^_-)

It mostly boils down to, it’s what I’m used to. Macs just seem easier to me, even on things that are supposedly easier on PCs.

(also, my first computer was a Commodore. Someone explain to me why I’m not a rabid Commodore nut)

Because Commodore != Amiga.

And Amiga ROCKS!