One last politics thread before I go go go

I’ve got a serious problem.

A big, huge, Bolt Vanderhuge size problem.

I…I am actually in defense of Bush (even in support of him) with his Roadmap to Peace process. Now, we all know how rare it is that I actually find Bush doing something that I enjoy (besides struggling with the English language), but it’s hard to criticize the man for what he’s trying to do with Israel and Palestine. He’s the last President since Carter to actually have the cahones enough to get down and dirty and face off against Israel.

Maybe this is the advantage of being a Republican. You’re not going to get the Jewish vote anyway, so stick it to Israel and let the weak spined democrats fritter and waste their presidencies not helping the situation any.

Anyway, he put forth a plan that basically looks like this: Hey Israel. Quit dicking around. I mean it. Sincerely, President George W. Bush.

This is different from the typical plan, that says this: Hey Israel. Maybe do you want to think about trying not to do the stuff that you are probably always doing? I mean, we’re not trying to bad-mouth you or anything, but, you know…aw shucks. I can’t stay mad at you. Signed, President Clinton.

So President Bush is doing something spectacularly good for once, and who’s trying to fuck it up? The people who need this plan to work more than anybody: the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Israelis are being murdered in the streets, in their homes, in their shopping malls. Palestinians are being murdered in their hovels, they’re being moved into camps, they’re losing an entire generation of youth to senseless violence. The cycle really does need to stop somewhere, and even if it stops with Bush (and he comes away with a nice shiny Nobel prize) I’ll be jubilant. I’m willing to put aside partisan silliness for an actual fair, lasting peace in Israel and Palestine (not to mention a Palestinian homeland).

The things that aren’t helping the process: again, Israelis and Palestinians. The Israeli right, besides Sharon (which is odd) is against this plan, saying that the arab nations are going to swarm in and rape their babies, even though this argument no longer makes sense. The Israeli left is for the plan, but they’re against Sharon, so they don’t know what to do. The Israeli settlers are ready to blow themselves up to kill Sharon, because they’re still convinced that this land belongs to them because…ahem…God gave it to them.

The Palestinians don’t have much to say on the matter, because they’re not exactly in a position to make a call on this, but I have a few minor suggestions to make sure the plan goes through on the Palestinian side at least.

First, build the world’s biggest catapult, maybe even trebuchet. Second, get Yassir Arafat. Third, place him on said trebuchet. Fourth, launch him into lower orbit. Repeat with Hamas.

I realize Hamas does some good things, but they do these good things with a motive. Sure they distribute food, but they also recruit kids to blow themselves up in the name of Allah the…ahem…Merciful.

Yassir Arafat however is a jerk. He should go back to being a civil engineer, like he said he would do, because he’s not a president. He’s a revolutionary. It’s hard to make the transition…

I’ve said since the beginning that their movement should be one of marked non-violence, although that’s kind of hard in the face of sweeping purges and slaughters spanning from 1948 to 1968, when the world finally realized that Israel was drunk with power.

Still, I think the difference between a supporter of a Palestinian homeland and the supporter of Israel is this: the ability to look past the murderous violence of the Palestinian side and see just how down and out their people really are. It’s not hard to sympathize with a group that has been put out of their homes and chased into oppression. It’s also sensible on this side of the argument to say: hey…Palestinian Authority, stop bitching about a missile attack that killed a leading member of Hamas’ military wing.

I don’t know. What do you think?

shut up!

boooooooooooooooooo

you suck!!

HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Originally posted by Trot_to_Trotsky
The Israeli right, besides Sharon (which is odd) is against this plan, saying that the arab nations are going to swarm in and rape their babies, even though this argument no longer makes sense.
Strategery, my friend. Sharon wants to be seen as on Bush’s side because otherwise Bush might send America’s youth to eat Israel, but he’s counting on the Palestinians to oppose the plan. Hissssssssss at Sharon.

Um… Bush is stupid?

Well, in general, yes.

But this whole showing his balls thing is actually pretty smart (not that this earns him my vote or anything).

Originally posted by KBV
Strategery, my friend. Sharon wants to be seen as on Bush’s side because otherwise Bush might send America’s youth to eat Israel, but he’s counting on the Palestinians to oppose the plan. Hissssssssss at Sharon.

As they already have shown.

Sharon is evil still.

Originally posted by Trot_to_Trotsky
The Palestinians don’t have much to say on the matter, because they’re not exactly in a position to make a call on this

Polling seems to indicate that the average Palestinian sentiment is something akin to “I hate Jews, they must die.” I understand that this is an opinion that has been heavily impressed upon them by Arafat, Hamas, et al - but that doesn’t mean it’s not there.

I realize Hamas does some good things, but they do these good things with a motive.

“The last temptation is the great treason: / To do the right thing for the wrong reason.” - TS Eliot (an anti-Semite)

he’s not a president. He’s a revolutionary. It’s hard to make the transition…

Umm… George Washington? Nelson Mandela? The problem here is that Arafat is not a revolutionary - he’s a terrorist who wants the destruction of the Jewish people. That would be why he can’t very well be president of a state that coexists with Israel.

Still, I think the difference between a supporter of a Palestinian homeland and the supporter of Israel is this: the ability to look past the murderous violence of the Palestinian side and see just how down and out their people really are.

I guess that’s my problem then. Where there’s murderous violence, I think the other side has forfeited its right to consideration.

I don’t know. What do you think?

I think this idiot Abbas fellow needs to stop his “we don’t want a civil war” business and kick some terrorist ass. If he honestly wants anyone outside of “We killed all our Jews, so why can’t the rest of the world do the same?” Europe to grant any legitimacy to a Palestinian state, he’s going to have to demonstrate that he can actually direct and maintain a monopoly on force. If he won’t, then I fear far too much for the safety of Israel to even consider Palestinians as worthy of a state.

Originally posted by Oblivion
Um… Bush is stupid?

This “argument” never fails to amaze me. Despite the fact that it is blindingly obvious that George W Bush is NOT stupid, the best some people can come up with is “Bush is stupid.” What exactly are your complaints? That he was a C-average student? He was a C-average student at YALE, when it was still possible to get a C at Yale. That he can’t speak in public? Maybe you missed the speeches after 9/11 that were nearly flawless examples of public speaking… not that inability to speak in public is sign of stupidity anyway. Or maybe that he’s a Christian? Well, God forbid.

Guh.

Well, let’s not split hairs here. Bush is a pretty vapid person. Seriously. If you and him argued, you could have him thinking he was a liberal goon, and I’m sure you could convince him to wear a dress and masturbate onto his own face (assuming, of course, that you’re Hannibal Lecter, which I’m sure you are).

And with that, I fade away.

Originally posted by Trot_to_Trotsky
[B]Well, let’s not split hairs here. Bush is a pretty vapid person. Seriously. If you and him argued, you could have him thinking he was a liberal goon, and I’m sure you could convince him to wear a dress and masturbate onto his own face (assuming, of course, that you’re Hannibal Lecter, which I’m sure you are).

And with that, I fade away. [/B]

He’s really not stupid. I promise. By the way, I can make most people think they are liberal goons who wear dresses and masturbate into their own faces. Or at least masturbate into my face.

Originally posted by LPFabulous
I guess that’s my problem then. Where there’s murderous violence, I think the other side has forfeited its right to consideration.
But they both do.

Originally posted by KBV
But they both do.

I don’t define murder to include killing in self-defense.

By which you mean defense against being stoned and shoved into the ocean, or defense against being shot in the face and shoved into Jordan?

It’s not self-defense, it’s revenge. And my ‘argument’ was a joke, albeit I have much proof of Bush’s stupidity.

“Do you have blacks here too?”
“It is hard for a man to put food on his family.”

That and the fact that he’s the only president who CAN’T get along with Jean Chretien. Christ, just smile and nod…

Originally posted by KBV
By which you mean defense against being stoned and shoved into the ocean, or defense against being shot in the face and shoved into Jordan?

I suppose I probably mean both… if the stoning/being shot in the face are unprovoked.

Originally posted by Oblivion
It’s not self-defense, it’s revenge.

It’s the only self-defense they’re allowed. It’s bad enough now that, every time Israel decides to do something for the good of the world (i.e., incinerate anyone who is even slightly involved with Hamas), the whole world is like “OMG Israel is pure evil those poor Palestinians life must be so hard when all you have to do to keep yourself busy is tie a bomb to your chest and murder women and children.” If the Israeli military actually went a-hunting for Palestinian garbage, there would be such an uproar that no one would survive. I agree that they only attack in reaction, but I’m afraid that’s all they’re allowed.

“Do you have blacks here too?”
“It is hard for a man to put food on his family.”

I’m glad that accidently using English incorrectly is a sign of stupidity. Because I’m sure you never inadvertently say something you don’t mean to say. Hell, I often try to type “about it” and accidentally type “abou tit.” I must be stupid too.

That and the fact that he’s the only president who CAN’T get along with Jean Chretien. Christ, just smile and nod…

Dude, that’s really more proof of the idiocy of other presidents. Chretien is Canadian… who likes Canadians? (This is a joke because you are Canadian, not because I hate Canadians.)